{"id":270,"date":"2010-06-24T05:36:05","date_gmt":"2010-06-24T10:36:05","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/blog.musoscribe.com\/?p=270"},"modified":"2010-06-24T05:36:05","modified_gmt":"2010-06-24T10:36:05","slug":"a-conversation-with-felix-cavaliere-and-steve-cropper-part-one","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"http:\/\/blog.musoscribe.com\/index.php\/2010\/06\/24\/a-conversation-with-felix-cavaliere-and-steve-cropper-part-one\/","title":{"rendered":"A Conversation with Felix Cavaliere and Steve Cropper (Part One)"},"content":{"rendered":"

Felix Cavaliere<\/strong> and Steve Cropper<\/strong> are among the most highly respected names in pop music. As guitarist and producer for the legendary Stax house band Booker T & the MGs<\/strong>, Cropper appeared on hundreds of essential soul and R&B tracks. Cropper played with Sam & Dave<\/strong>, Otis Redding<\/strong>, Albert King<\/strong>, Eddie Floyd<\/strong>, the Blues Brothers<\/strong>\u2026the list goes on and on. His signature licks are among the most iconic and recognizable in all of music. Felix Cavaliere founded the (Young) Rascals<\/strong><\/a> in 1964, and throughout that decade that group gave the British Invasion a run for its money with an impressive string of hits featuring Cavaliere\u2019s soulful voice and distinctive Hammond B3 organ work.<\/p>\n

If these musicians had chosen to retire in, say, the 1970s, their reputations would be secure for all time.\u00a0 But fortunately, both artists have continued to record and tour. Cropper remains a frequent contributor to others\u2019 albums, and continues to work with Booker T & the MGs. And Cavaliere fronts his band (called Felix Cavaliere\u2019s Rascals<\/strong>) for dates across the country. In 2008 these two men decided to record an album together, and that Grammy-nominated success of that album led to 2010\u2019s Midnight Flyer<\/em>. On the even of the new album\u2019s release, I took the opportunity to speak at length with both of them.<\/p>\n

\n

Bill Kopp \/ Musoscribe:<\/strong> You both come from soul backgrounds. How aware were you of each other\u2019s work back in the 1960s? Did you ever share a bill, or did your paths otherwise cross at all back then?<\/font><\/p>\n

Felix Cavaliere:<\/strong>\u00a0 The Atlantic group was like a big family. Quite different from the other record companies in existence at that time, it was closer, more akin to the Motown family. Steve would come to New York quite frequently. If you look at the recording history, you\u2019ll see that Booker T & the MGs did \u201cGroovin\u2019\u201d and had a hit with it as well. Some of the other songs we had done in our live show, they had taken those songs and done instrumentals. So there\u2019s been a relationship \u2013 more on a business than on a personal level \u2013 between Steve and myself and those guys for at least forty years.<\/p>\n

Steve Cropper:<\/strong> Being exposed to radio, being a radio nut, my whole career was not based on trying to impress people with music; it was based on trying to get hit records. The whole indoctrination of Stax records was to get the next chart hit record. Whether it\u2019d be on the R&B charts, the pop charts, whatever. Stax was a singles label to some degree, and so too was Atlantic in those days. Even though they released tons and tons of albums, they really wanted those hit singles from their artists. That\u2019s how we came to work with Wilson Pickett<\/strong>. Because of the connection with Atlantic – -with them being Stax\u2019s distributor \u2013 I got to be really good friends with [producer] Tom Dowd<\/strong>. Tom had produced everybody — from the Drifters <\/strong>to Ray Charles<\/strong><\/a> to you-name-it. And he really made me aware of these guys The Rascals.<\/p>\n

We were all aware that blue-eyed soul in those days just didn\u2019t sell all that much, y\u2019know? But there seemed to be some taste for it, and these guys out of New Jersey and New York just had a way with that kind of music. It worked for \u2018em. But it didn\u2019t work down South so much. We had a few one-hit wonders — Roy Head<\/strong> and people like that \u2013 but most of \u2018em never made it past their one hit. I\u2019ve always had a respect for Felix. Our connection came through the Northwest Allstar Band<\/strong>. We did that and realized how much fun we had working together. And we discovered how close the audiences are \u2013 people that like his music and like our music.<\/p>\n

Bill<\/strong>: How did you come to work with each other? I know you both live in Nashville, but I\u2019m guessing that there\u2019s more to it than that.<\/font><\/p>\n

Felix:<\/strong> Nashville is a Mecca for people who write songs. It\u2019s like a daily thing here that people get together and come up with new ideas, new songs. Then of course we have all of the studios for people to demo the songs. Jon Tiven<\/strong> had just moved to town, and he said, \u201cwhy don\u2019t you guys get together and do an album\u201d We said, \u201cWe\u2019re on two different labels, but we\u2019d love to write together.\u201d So basically we got together as a writing entity. We started writing, started having a blast. We starting recording it and it started sounding pretty good.<\/p>\n

These recordings were demos for songwriters, primarily. Time went by, due to the fact that we\u2019re both working musicians on the road. So it took a little longer. At the end of the day, we had about ten songs that Jon Tiven heard, and he said, \u201cWe gotta sell this stuff! We gotta get it out there!\u201d<\/p>\n

Steve:<\/strong> Jon Tiven said, \u201cMaybe you should put this stuff out yourselves, instead of trying to shop it to other artists.\u201d<\/p>\n

Felix:<\/strong> Neither of us really had any aspirations of it doing anything [commercially], especially in today\u2019s musical climate. But, why not?! And sure enough, it happened.<\/p>\n

Steve:<\/strong> I said to Jon, \u201cWe don\u2019t have a record deal. And I\u2019ve pretty much had it with all that. The MGs can\u2019t get one, the Rascals can\u2019t get one. How are we gonna get one?\u201d He said, \u201cLet me get to work on it.\u201d So he went out and got us a deal with Concord.<\/p>\n

Felix:<\/strong> With the first one (Nudge it Up a Notch<\/em>) we got great reviews, and we got a Grammy nomination. So when they asked us to do a second one, it was just a tremendous lift, you know?<\/p>\n

Bill<\/strong>:<\/font> You\u2019re both inextricably associated with soul music. How would you describe the difference between Steve\u2019s Memphis style and Felix\u2019s New York sound? Or is there an appreciable difference?<\/font><\/p>\n

Felix:<\/strong>\u00a0 There\u2019s a definite difference. Steve\u2019s roots are Southern, blues-based, and that wonderful vernacular that they have down south lyrically. Mine comes from a classical and jazz root; that\u2019s basically the difference. It\u2019s really the big difference between the east coast and the south. And when it joins together, there\u2019s a certain quaintness about it that you can\u2019t quite put your finger on. For example, when we come up with a title, the things that Steve comes up with are so different, because they\u2019re kind of southern-based words. And that\u2019s been kind of a cool centerpiece for music since rock\u2019n\u2019roll started.<\/p>\n

Steve:<\/strong> At the root of the music, I don\u2019t think there is a lot of difference. It\u2019s rhythm-based music, and the overall projection of it is good music. Even if it\u2019s a medium-tempo ballad, it\u2019s about feeling good. It\u2019s not tear-jerkin\u2019 stuff. We had \u201cDock of the Bay,\u201d which is medium-tempo, and he had \u201cGroovin.\u2019\u201d And both of those songs have that soulful quality that makes you feel good inside. People relate to it, and it makes you feel better as you go through your daily routine. And of course the Rascals did a version of \u201cIn the Midnight Hour,\u201d which is a nice connection. So I think Felix and I just automatically read each other\u2019s minds. Without saying so, we have the same sort of direction.<\/p>\n

Bill:<\/strong> How \u2013 if in any way \u2013 do you think that Midnight Flyer<\/em> differs from Nudge it Up a Notch<\/em>? I see that both David Z<\/strong> and Tom Hambridge<\/strong> are involved again\u2026<\/font><\/p>\n

Steve:<\/strong> I think this album has a little more serious direction musically. The last one was more simple. These songs are more thought out. And I think this record has more keyboard influence in it than the last record did. Felix\u2019s voice is still there, of course. I\u2019m not saying he\u2019s playing more on this album; it\u2019s that there\u2019s more keyboard influence in the root of the writing of the songs. The last album was based more on the guitar chugging along. On the last one, I was in on the writing of every song. On this one I wasn\u2019t on every single one. And I think that\u2019s kind of a good thing. It opened it up. It was kind of fun for me to come in and lay down guitar on something I hadn\u2019t heard before.<\/p>\n

Bill<\/strong>:<\/font> About your approach to writing these songs. Did you each bring pieces of songs to the project and then finish them together, or did you write in the studio, or what?<\/font><\/p>\n

Felix:<\/strong> One of the things that we\u2019ve done with this album that is kind of different for us, is that we\u2019ve used Apple Logic loops. We went into a studio that Steve used to own, and we wrote in the studio. Basically, we had an invisible drummer that came in from the computer, and we had a keyboard and a guitar. And then Tom Hambridge — who\u2019s a great writer as well as a great musician \u2013 co-wrote with the two of us on almost all of the songs. So we literally wrote the songs on the spot. We\u2019d come in with some ideas, and what I did was bring mine in on the computer. So instead of it being merely a verbal idea, it was something I could present.<\/p>\n

And it\u2019s really a lot of fun like that. In the old, old days, you used to have the luxury of writing in the studio. Unless you have your own studio nowadays, that\u2019s impossible. But if you do have [access to a studio], you can do that. And it\u2019s a whole lot of fun. First of all, it sounds a lot better as you\u2019re doing it. And you get this kind of \u201cexcitement of the hunt.\u201d<\/p>\n

Bill<\/strong>:<\/font> I hadn\u2019t thought about that. In a way, modern technology allows musicians to go back to the tried-and-true method of writing in the studio. <\/font><\/p>\n

Felix:<\/strong> As you get older, people can\u2019t afford the time to sit around jamming like they used to do. So we have a drummer that doesn\u2019t need to take a break, \u2018cause he\u2019s in the computer! That\u2019s really where this technology can come into successful use. And the plethora of ideas that come from those loops \u2013 where do they even come from? Even the title Midnight Flyer<\/em>: that came from one of the Apple loops. The ideas came from guitar, harmonica, drum loops. I can tell you, if I hadn\u2019t heard some of those loops, I would have never written a song like that. Loops totally inspired the whole thing. In the old days, you would experience the idea by traveling to New Orleans; nowadays you can basically do that on the computer! Not as much fun as going to New Orleans, but\u2026[laughs].<\/p>\n

The software that I\u2019ve purchased for this is just magnificent. There\u2019s a program called Sonisphere by a company called Spectrasonics. They have expended so much time creating sounds that you would never even have heard of. For example, they took pianos, and recorded the sound of them burning! So you hear strings snapping. What they\u2019ve done in the music field, is that they\u2019ve taken these sounds that sound eerie, and they\u2019ve made it so that we can play them. So there are some really weird sounds in there. I just love it. But of course we can\u2019t get too modern. If we get too modern, we\u2019ll get panned. We\u2019re two oldies-but-goodies guys who are keeping our roots as much as we can, while using modern technology.<\/p>\n

Bill<\/strong>:<\/font> Yeah, you don\u2019t want to make something that gets dated, where in five years people will say, \u201cOh, that\u2019s so 2010.\u201d <\/font><\/p>\n

Felix:<\/strong> Yeah, whatever that <\/em>means. I don\u2019t know if we\u2019ll still be making music in five years!<\/p>\n

Bill<\/strong>:<\/font> Have there been \u2013 or will there be \u2013 any live dates, any performances of these songs? If not, did sort of knowing that you wouldn\u2019t be playing these live have any effect on your songwriting and\/or arrangement?<\/font><\/p>\n

Felix:<\/strong> We haven\u2019t to date. But I certainly do hope we do something live. It would certainly take some organization, because we are two separate entities. To bring those together is certainly possible; we just need an excuse. Something like a showcase, or an event where people would like to have us play. We could work it together really quickly.<\/p>\n

Steve:<\/strong> If we get forced into it, holy shit. It\u2019s scarin\u2019 my pants off. Because, at my age, having to learn a whole new routine\u2026but it can be done. It\u2019s not a problem. What I\u2019ve done with bands in the past \u2013 Jimmy Buffett<\/strong>, Neil Young<\/strong><\/a>, Dave Edmunds<\/strong>, you name it \u2013 I have to learn their catalog of songs. And even in the old days it took some work. Music fans think — since you wrote it, and you played on the recording, and you\u2019re the artist who did it — that you know it like the back of your hand. And it\u2019s not necessarily true, especially in the old days at Stax. I\u2019d say, \u201cYou know what? We\u2019ve cut a hundred and fifty songs since we cut that one.\u201d So I know it, but I\u2019d need to re-learn it, just like anybody else.<\/p>\n

But it would be a fun challenge to put something together. And I\u2019ve always envisioned that if Felix and I ever did go out together, he could do Felix and the Rascals stuff, and I could do Booker T stuff, and Blues Brothers stuff. And then he and I could present, \u201cHow would you guys like to hear a couple things we\u2019ve collaborated on.\u201d We wouldn\u2019t promote the show as just the new record; it would be deeper than that. I think people that would come to see us would want to hear our hits as well. That\u2019s just me. There would never be a dull moment, that\u2019s for sure.<\/p>\n

In Part Two<\/a> Steve Cropper owns up to lifting a lick from a popular song, Felix Cavaliere reveals that he\u2019s not all that crazy about Hammond B3s, and the two consider what a potential Cropper\/Cavaliere gig might be like.<\/em><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

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